tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post730246148847039196..comments2024-02-20T10:12:20.623+00:00Comments on The Blog That Time Forgot: The Last RingbearerTaranaichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-70033531691336895042012-04-04T06:44:27.809+01:002012-04-04T06:44:27.809+01:00Re: "Americans can only read 300 characters&q...Re: "Americans can only read 300 characters"<br /><br />Brilliant point, except that LOTR is something like 1200 pages or so, and that seems to have found an audience....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-7535496995500951662012-03-28T18:59:28.958+01:002012-03-28T18:59:28.958+01:00British scientists are right - Americans can only ...British scientists are right - Americans can only read 300 characters. Then they lose interest.<br /><br />Spoken of feared socialism. Book 1984 talks about modern Capitalism. Cameras everywhere, patriotic act "humanitarian bombing of civilians" by NATO, war is peace, etc. Sadly, Americans cant read and think..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-13232839256046081572011-11-22T15:09:37.383+00:002011-11-22T15:09:37.383+00:00I read it and found it quite entertaining. I see i...I read it and found it quite entertaining. I see it less as an attack on Tolkien but as a use of the Tolkienian setting for painting a certain picture of the conflict between Russia and the West. The Elves for example are clearly stand-ins for the Nazis. The historical excursions into the history of Harad draw strongly on European colonialism in Africa (but this time with the Zulu winning and uniting the continent). Biased? Of course. But finding the real world parallels (some quite subtle, others definitely not) is part of the fun (even if one does not share the author's views).<br />as for the wizards, they actually show up only twice and are only secondary players. By giving the mirror to Galadriel at the beginning, they essentially take themselves out of the game and become more or less passive observers.<br />Aragorn is not downright evil but a Machiavellian pragmatist not even fully free in his actions. At the end, when the elvish influence and magic disappear, he steers his empire along the path Mordor had follewed before, i.e. science and technology. Talk about inevitability.HBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-1911883250281385332011-10-16T12:07:18.942+01:002011-10-16T12:07:18.942+01:00Lots of you guys treat Tolkiens stories like it wa...Lots of you guys treat Tolkiens stories like it was the holy bible and everyone who does some criticism is called a heretic. You seem to have a lack of humour.<br />This book is about an alternate history of Midle earth. I read one third of it and it was entertaining and I had laughed a lot. <br />I still think Tolkiens work is great, so what?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-75821169700741095292011-09-19T22:11:40.153+01:002011-09-19T22:11:40.153+01:00You've interpreted this book as some sort of a...You've interpreted this book as some sort of attack on Tolkien's work. It is nothing of the sort. It's simply an alternate take on Middle Earth. I found it wonderful. Don't be such a fanboy.YAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-80286483407311122112011-04-25T15:44:34.880+01:002011-04-25T15:44:34.880+01:00I just finished reading the book this weekend. I ...I just finished reading the book this weekend. I enjoyed it, but mostly by not paying overly much attention to its connections to the original Tolkein novels. The names and places are shared, but not much else, so it's fairly easy to not dwell of the connections.<br /><br />So much of the book is spent on the cloak and dagger escapades in Umbar I was left feeling like the author really just wanted to write a spy novel but didn't want to create an entirely new fictional world to do it. As if the rest of the story was created simply to provide a reason for the cloak and dagger stuff to happen, but was mostly incidental. Anyways, that's how it struck me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-74741917044583358032011-03-31T16:00:00.658+01:002011-03-31T16:00:00.658+01:00Continued - silly size limit...
5. In spite of a s...Continued - silly size limit...<br />5. In spite of a style of writing that wasn't always brilliant and had been translated, there are parts of it that flow beautifully and really compel you to keep reading (these are generally less concerned with the historical and background details, and are more an actual real story and a complex power struggle). I really liked how the author was in complete control of what was happening and how the conclusion would finally be reached. This is once hinted at in the initial Nazgul - Haladdin conference, but after that the story progresses towards the end without any real indication of how important parts will be achieved, but they are. The final plan shows the gentle touch of Haladdin, with the target achieved not by penetrating with force the almost impenetrable Elvish camp, but working through social engineering, persuasion, and the use of Mordorian technology that he didn't even know existed to get a palantir in there, and then the genius of sending the fire of Orodruin through the palantir to another palantir to destroy the mirror.<br /><br />6. Finally, the story is much more morally ambiguous than "the bad guys are now the good guys". Several of the main characters ponder more than once over the fact that they are doing bad things (including killing innocent people and even having to kill those on their own side who attack them without realising they are on the same side for "the greater good"). This in fact drives them further along the path they are on, since they realise that if at any point they give up they have betrayed all those they have wronged, and all that wrong has been done in vain - a very human characteristic and dilemma (putting time/money into a thing makes it more valuable to us - and so we can keep on with it even if it doesn't make sense). One of the key characters has a premonition the mission will lead to his death (which is correct) and struggles with whether he should abandon it and live out a normal life or not.<br /><br />In short, the switch between good guys and bad guys is too sudden and some of it lacks credibility and leads to a lot of tedious (if sometimes ingenious) explaining away of LotR. However, once past that it is actually a good story. The main reason I would not worry too much about it being a "derivative work" of LotR is that the best bits of the story are pretty much the author's own work, and rely on LotR for nothing more than a few place names.<br /><br />However, the Last Ringbearer is actually quite a fitting name, and Dr Haladdin is a good character forced into difficulties, very much in the mould of Frodo. He is very genuine, very sincere, and is trying to do the right thing. He just doesn't know what that right thing is, and whether the end justifies the means. The final scene is very like Frodo, having Haladdin on Mount Orodruin with a faithful servant, then (rather than desire for power, like Frodo had) being persuaded by Saruman that he wasn't sure putting the palantir in the fire was the right thing. Then it is ultimately accident that causes the palantir to go in. Afterwards, Haladdin withdraws a somewhat broken man and has to leave this life as he once knew it, again like Frodo. That's probably one of few parts that draws heavily on LotR and is still very good.<br /><br />I suddenly realise I've almost written a review myself. That must explain why it took so long! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-20896939262994848022011-03-31T15:59:14.620+01:002011-03-31T15:59:14.620+01:00I'd have to make some comments, based on actua...I'd have to make some comments, based on actually reading the Last Ringbearer English translation:<br />1. I really like LotR. This book definitely hasn't changed that. As much as anything else, Tolkien's style of writing is brilliant.<br /><br />2. For that reason, much of what was written directly against the "LotR" view of the world I found very annoying. But it still compelled my interest, because some of it did fill or suggest interesting gaps in the story (though I didn't like all the gap fill).<br /><br />3. After a while, it becomes a story almost totally disconnected from the LotR (sharing about 5% of the world, and set in a part of the world that LotR was not set in). That part of the book is quite compelling, if far too overtly sexual and filled with profanity for my taste.<br /><br />4. As has been mentioned, sometimes following the plot can be very hard when it randomly switches from past to present or from character to character. It probably didn't help that I would pick up reading it every few weeks, but keeping track of all the espionage characters and whose side they were on was difficult (and sometimes concealed anyway).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-21095487146241940022011-03-12T02:29:46.169+00:002011-03-12T02:29:46.169+00:00Definitely don't bother reading. It's got ...Definitely don't bother reading. It's got everything you said wrong with it, accompanied by atrocious writing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-19212637526412407352011-03-06T07:53:34.980+00:002011-03-06T07:53:34.980+00:00http://onelastsketch.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/east...http://onelastsketch.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/eastern-european-fantasy-post-tolkien/<br /><br />Ugggghhhhh. That took longer than expected.Michalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02198881279554204600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-4468699456695913422011-03-03T04:41:55.813+00:002011-03-03T04:41:55.813+00:00http://branemrys.blogspot.com/2011/02/yeskovs-midd...http://branemrys.blogspot.com/2011/02/yeskovs-middle-earth.html<br /><br />^A counterpoint to Miller's review, and a better representation of what the book is like. <br /><br />I have to say, reading this, that hippy Radagast was funny. I think I'll track down the Polish translation; despite the above misgivings, it's actually rendered in a coherent fashion, if a bit flat.Michalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02198881279554204600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-13709990669495603912011-03-01T13:34:29.549+00:002011-03-01T13:34:29.549+00:00(same anonymous as before)
I didn't see Satan...(same anonymous as before)<br /><br />I didn't see Satan's motive in "Paradise Lost" to be power so much as vengeance. I read Milton's Satan as angry, defeated, and hateful whose famous statement about it being better to rule in hell than serve in heaven was nothing more than sour grapes. He struck back out of anger, nothing much more.<br /><br />In terms of rights of dead authors, I meant that I feel *all* works should revert to the public domain on the author's death at the very latest. I have no issue whatsoever with Wicked, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, or with Milton borrowing from the anonymous authors of the Hebrew Bible for that matter.<br /><br />I'm not sure why Lord Rabbit sees a moral issue in borrowing the setting of a dead author. I can see the issue of taste, but I for one think that if an author today wanted to write a a story in which Miss Marple and James Bond team up with Captain Nemo to investigate the sunken city if R'lyeh there's no reason not to.<br /><br />And I found middle of The Last Ringbearer to be distractingly anachronistic, but I'm still curious enough that I'll likely finish it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-74648000758070050932011-02-28T23:11:48.526+00:002011-02-28T23:11:48.526+00:00I'll admit, I didn't read the entire blog ...I'll admit, I didn't read the entire blog post, but my response is based on what other people have said about it...<br /><br />I read it cover to cover and it was fun. Great literature? Not at all. I doubt I'll read it again (unlike with LoTRs).<br /><br />But as was noted above, I've never been entirely satisfied with Suaron's motivation (pure evul?), nor with the explanations of why the Elves fought so enthusiastically to user in the Age of Man. So this book fleshes that out.<br /><br />It helps to appreciate the "The Last Ringbearer" if you've appreciated any Russian novels. The middle third of the satire is pure ham-fisted cloak and dagger and revisionist history, reminded me a bit of The Nose.<br /><br />The basis for the book, an analysis of the geography and how that would inform the economics and societies of middle earth was fascinating.<br /><br />I think people's reaction to this story will depend upon the extent to which the lionize good ol' Saint Tolkien. But I welcomed the opportunity to see Middle Earth through new and perhaps somewhat jaundiced eyes.blyslvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-32698516580329480852011-02-28T21:54:57.117+00:002011-02-28T21:54:57.117+00:00I don't really have that big of a problem with...I don't really have that big of a problem with people borrowing elements of others.. what I have a problem with is inviting themselves over to play in the sandbox when the original author isn't home anymore to defend their sandbox. <br /><br />I feel it's more of a moral question than anything.. I immensely dislike books like Wicked and all these Classics + Zombies novels that are all the rage right now. <br /><br />However, that said, I'm not sure if I'd be so thrilled to get new middle earth tales that I'd ignore Christopher writing them or not.. It's hard to say. <br /><br />But beyond that, I'm content with Sauron being evil just cause he got stuck at the chair with the black hat on it when the music stopped.Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-35374044497789442292011-02-28T18:11:39.780+00:002011-02-28T18:11:39.780+00:00I'm about a third of the way into it, and have...<i>I'm about a third of the way into it, and have to confess that I'm finding it an entertaining read, even if it's not brilliant literature. I'm willing to forgive some of the awkward prose as poor translation and have read enough secondary-world fantasy to be used to large chunks of indigestible exposition.</i><br /><br />Fair enough. I am a Brian Lumley fan, after all.<br /><br /><i>What I like about it is that it DOES fix what I agree is a flaw in Tolkein's work by giving at least somewhat realistic motivations to each side. To each his own, but I never found "Sauron is evil because he's evil" to be very compelling. </i><br /><br />I always felt Sauron's motivations were the same as Satan's in <i>Paradise Lost</i> - power. After being seduced by Morgoth, Sauron wanted to trade deference to Eru and the other Valar in favour of domination of his own land. When the Valar decided to stop getting involved in Middle-earth matters, Sauron decided he could make Middle-earth his own Valinor, and fashion it in his image.<br /><br /><i>As a sometimes writer myself I DO want to stand up for intellectual property rights, but I don't see how the Tolkein estate has any moral right to the late JRR's work.</i><br /><br />I don't think they have any more or less rights than other copyright holders of deceased authors. However, as to whether *any* copyright holders to dead authors should have rights, well, that's another question - one I might address in future.Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-27850649726762024902011-02-28T17:05:47.006+00:002011-02-28T17:05:47.006+00:00I'm about a third of the way into it, and have...I'm about a third of the way into it, and have to confess that I'm finding it an entertaining read, even if it's not brilliant literature. I'm willing to forgive some of the awkward prose as poor translation and have read enough secondary-world fantasy to be used to large chunks of indigestible exposition.<br /><br />What I like about it is that it DOES fix what I agree is a flaw in Tolkein's work by giving at least somewhat realistic motivations to each side. To each his own, but I never found "Sauron is evil because he's evil" to be very compelling. <br /><br />As a sometimes writer myself I DO want to stand up for intellectual property rights, but I don't see how the Tolkein estate has any moral right to the late JRR's work. Eighteenth century literature built on a variety of classical and Biblical texts; in my mind infinitely-extended copyrights prevent us from building on the new classical works of the early to mid-twentiety centuries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-46947346379649409712011-02-27T10:41:08.388+00:002011-02-27T10:41:08.388+00:00Unfortunately the copyright situation in Russia is...<i>Unfortunately the copyright situation in Russia is one of the reasons I'm really hoping they will soon be admitted to the WTO.. one of the main requirements is of course, a crackdown on these sorts of "Unauthorized" projects</i><br /><br />I agree, personally, even though I'm not really a big copyright guy. Doing copyright law on my degree course left me hating the entire thing.<br /><br /><i>Oh, God damn you, Taranaich. After writing the above, I've suddenly started working on a long post on the subject, which means I've begun suffering through the bloody thing.</i><br /><br />Bwahahaha, I knew it!Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-34101759754086869402011-02-27T07:24:49.089+00:002011-02-27T07:24:49.089+00:00Oh, God damn you, Taranaich. After writing the ab...Oh, God damn you, Taranaich. After writing the above, I've suddenly started working on a long post on the subject, which means I've begun suffering through the bloody thing.<br /><br />It isn't any better when you read it as a cultural artifact. Gah!Michalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02198881279554204600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-35303180332667863062011-02-25T03:12:29.456+00:002011-02-25T03:12:29.456+00:00"An intriguing essay I'll have to discuss..."An intriguing essay I'll have to discuss - or perhaps yourself or Brian could take the helm?"<br /><br />I must sadly decline. I wasted enough time rebuking Alpers, and to do such a thing I would have to read "The Last Ringbearer" in its entirety--something I am most certainly not willing to do.<br /><br />It seems to have done well enough in Poland. I've found bizarre Polish reviews of "The Lord of the Rings" dating back to the 70s about "proletariat orcs" and the evil, backwards "bourgois" hobbits. One even claimed Saruman tried to bring a "socialist revolution" to the Shire (of the Stalinist kind, I guess) In a post-communist climate, it seems Yeskov's work might have been inevitable. He's not even the first--there are many more published Middle Earth "hate-fics" in Russia that predate "The Last Lord of the Ring" ('cause that's what the title actually translates to, or the Polish one, at least), born from the same kind of spite. Attempts to appropriate LOTR for "the East", ignoring the rich fantasy tradition already there, instead continuing the fetishism of economics started by a "western" philosopher via Russian-reversals of a "western" work.<br /><br />Sigh. Just one small reason why my family left the land of the Baba Jaga, I suppose.Michalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02198881279554204600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-30355734932421541002011-02-24T07:34:12.203+00:002011-02-24T07:34:12.203+00:00I think it's also some what disengenous to do ...I think it's also some what disengenous to do this sort of thing instead of writing his very own story. Had he have taken the effort to craft a story based around his Magic Vs Technology angle.. even including in the idea of the misunderstood or simply slandered "dark lord" it could have been a good story.. Instead he's just some Russian chap who decided Tolkien just hadn't a clue about Tolkien's own stories.. <br /><br />I do recommend he lay off the Marxist kool-aid though.. last time I checked, his side lost.Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-47071417761274795922011-02-24T07:31:36.618+00:002011-02-24T07:31:36.618+00:00Unfortunately the copyright situation in Russia is...Unfortunately the copyright situation in Russia is one of the reasons I'm really hoping they will soon be admitted to the WTO.. one of the main requirements is of course, a crackdown on these sorts of "Unauthorized" projects.. Which apparently are far more common than just this one.. this one has simply been translated into English and has gained notoriety because of it. <br /><br />It perhaps isn't fanfiction in the strictest sense of the word because of its having been published in Russia.. but it wears the uniform of Fanfaction just assuredly as any of the crap my sister ever wrote for whatever anime she was wetting herself over that week. <br /><br />I always questioned what made her feel she had the right to play in some one elses sandbox without permission.. and it's a question I'm still waiting on an answer too. <br /><br />Thing is, in Japan they have an entire cottage industry around these sorts of dubiously legal publishings.. they call them Dojinshi's and they tend to simply present some one elses characters engaging in all manner of deviant sexual acts, or simply do what this has done and try and rehabilitate the bad guy as some one who is just misunderstood.. but comes around once he has had sex with the nubile catgirl in the school girl uniform who the real series was about..Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-79669879214519498772011-02-24T06:31:11.793+00:002011-02-24T06:31:11.793+00:00No problem, Lagomorph, I wasn't suggesting oth...No problem, Lagomorph, I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I believe the reason is that the book HAS been published in Russia, and that they were looking to publish it in English before the Tolkien Estate swooped down like Thorondor.Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-31666375311222690272011-02-24T06:16:55.329+00:002011-02-24T06:16:55.329+00:00well.. Al, I wasn't questioning why YOU speci...well.. Al, I wasn't questioning why YOU specifically were discussing it.. just why it was being discussed in general.. or being held up as some how being important.. Those paragons of liberal/marxist-drivel/virtues at Westeros.org of course seem to love it.. but that's unsurprising.. they probably like Spinrad's the Iron Dream too. <br /><br />But the question is, did he have the permission of the Tolkien Estate to write it? was it Commissioned by Christopher Tolkien? <br /><br />I mean people jumped all over Dennis Mckeirnan for essentially fleshing out the battle of Fornost in his Iron Tower series.. and it was.. well.. actually good. <br /><br />If it's not fanfic, it's Unauthorized certainly.Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-38913724181166807952011-02-24T06:08:48.283+00:002011-02-24T06:08:48.283+00:00Before reductionist arguments about the crusades g...<i>Before reductionist arguments about the crusades go any further (and Bernard Lewis made some of them--see his debates with Edward Said), I urge you all to read this little piece on the matter:</i><br /><br />It's impossible to reduce the Crusades, which is what I've been (doing a terrible job of) arguing. That said, excellent link, Taran, if a little Euro/Christio-centric (perhaps the point). In any case, I think the argument is in extreme danger of ballooning into something beyond the bounds of the original article, so I'll just call it a day, unless Michael has a final thought. Suffice to say, the Crusades were a complete and utter mess and resulted in a lot of lives lost on both sides.<br /><br />I had problems with <i>Kingdom of Heaven</i>, even the Director's Cut, so I can imagine their disdain for the film.<br /><br /><i>Critique of Tolkien? Fine. But do it an essay, not in the guise of (bad) fanfic.</i><br /><br />I note that there's another work out there called "Mirkwood" which is apparently the same sort of thing, critique of Tolkien in the guise of fiction. Mirkwood, however, appears to want to take Tolkien to task for perceived sexism. I can hardly wait for that to make it onto PDF...<br /><br /><i>On another note of interest, Dr. Yeskov's essay on why he wrote the book linked below. To call "The Last Ringbearer" fanfiction is, in fact, a mistake.</i><br /><br />Jings, you aren't kidding. "Hate-fiction" is probably a better word. I particularly love how he wrote the story for "skeptics and agnostics brought up on Hemingway and brothers Strugatzky, for whom Tolkien is only a charming, albeit slightly tedious, writer of children’s books."<br /><br />Suddenly everything makes so much sense. The man seems determined to find inconsistencies that don't exist in the books. Take his ludicrous demand to know about Rohan's economy: do we really need to know the details? Is it really such a leap to just assume that they existed in pretty much the same way countless Germanic horse tribes have existed since ancient times - or is that beyond Yeskov's imagination?<br /><br />An intriguing essay I'll have to discuss - or perhaps yourself or Brian could take the helm?<br /><br /><i>"C zyż istnieje na świecie piękniejszy widok niż zachód słońca na pustyni, gdy, jakby wstydząc się swej jaskrawej południowej mocy, zaczyna pieścić człowieka garściami barw o niewyobrażalnej czystości i delikatności!"<br /><br />That, my friends, also makes my head hurt. </i><br /><br />You'll, uh, have to elaborate for me and other non-Slavophones...Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-48594274422315225622011-02-24T02:53:53.736+00:002011-02-24T02:53:53.736+00:00On another note of interest, Dr. Yeskov's essa...On another note of interest, Dr. Yeskov's essay on why he wrote the book linked below. To call "The Last Ringbearer" fanfiction is, in fact, a mistake.<br /><br />http://ymarkov.livejournal.com/273409.html<br /><br />As for questions of translation, I've looked at excerpts from the Polish translation, which is nearer to Russian, and unless the Polish translation is also garbage, I'm afraid the fault for the clunky prose is not entirely the translator's. <br /><br />"C zyż istnieje na świecie piękniejszy widok niż zachód słońca na pustyni, gdy, jakby wstydząc się swej jaskrawej południowej mocy, zaczyna pieścić człowieka garściami barw o niewyobrażalnej czystości i delikatności!"<br /><br />That, my friends, also makes my head hurt.Michalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02198881279554204600noreply@blogger.com