tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post1182699634595869243..comments2024-02-20T10:12:20.623+00:00Comments on The Blog That Time Forgot: Et tu, Alan?Taranaichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-59651017539912797892010-08-20T13:45:32.904+01:002010-08-20T13:45:32.904+01:00Believe me, Syon, you aren't the only one who ...Believe me, Syon, you aren't the only one who remembers "Gilgamesh." Part of the reason I haven't already torn it apart on TBTTF is that I'm doing research on Lovecraft: I'm pretty sure he comes off at least as badly as REH in the story.<br /><br />Rick, well, I think that's the saddest part of all: I think Moore DID do the research, but the research was based on inaccurate "facts." Still, Moore came up with his own groaners too.<br /><br />Anon, Moore is indeed an ass. Harlan Ellison's also an ass (he sued someone for comparing him to the "insane" Robert E. Howard - and WON!). I just wish they could be more humble geniuses - Crom knows they exist.Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-16751667629460213072010-08-20T13:10:06.012+01:002010-08-20T13:10:06.012+01:00Alan Moore is an ass. He's a remarkably talen...Alan Moore is an ass. He's a remarkably talented writer but he's still an ass. Not an uncommon trait (see also Harlan Ellison).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-79990087764648607572010-08-20T08:49:06.807+01:002010-08-20T08:49:06.807+01:00sorry I tried to said explanation and its surreal ...sorry I tried to said explanation and its surreal and pop culture based humour...<br />Francisco...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-86311348502451408662010-08-20T08:47:09.487+01:002010-08-20T08:47:09.487+01:00thanks for the explnation Lagomorph Rex and for th...thanks for the explnation Lagomorph Rex and for the aclaration Al...<br />by the way here you have a very good characterization of Alan Moore by a group of spanish humorists Muchachada Nui, its surreal and pop culture based is oriented for freaks and geeks in the late twenties and thirties...<br />http://muchachadanui.rtve.es/celebrities-alan-moore.html<br />http://muchachadanui.rtve.es/alan-moore-presenta-muchachada-nui.html<br />Francisco...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-80267393391221228162010-08-20T06:27:45.745+01:002010-08-20T06:27:45.745+01:00I like a lot of Alan's work. Promethea was pre...I like a lot of Alan's work. Promethea was pretty spankin' and TLoEG has been very entertaining and even insightful (particularly his dissection of Victorian ideals that never lived up even their most modest intentions). I find too much of his work to be shameless revisions of things that are culturally familiar, but he's hardly alone in that. I don't think he's the genius everyone makes him out to be. He's good but not so much revolutionary as he is adept at skewering convention and shedding light on the deeper complexities of being human.<br />What bothers me about his empty headed slam at Robert Howard and his fiction is the simple fact that he weighed in on something he was too lazy to bother researching. He came to asinine conclusions, conclusions that -regardless of their lacking merit- were then read by avid (and more than a few sycophantic..) fans. They, in turn repeated the same clueless opinion in their slavish worship of Moore's "genius".<br />Fandom. I really don't get it.<br />What's funny is I remember reading Moore's anti-S&S screed and his rant against Howard and this kept me from reading his work for a little while.Rick Tuckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17427554955346329594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-66646972912997890972010-08-20T04:06:54.448+01:002010-08-20T04:06:54.448+01:00"Bob Silverberg's atrocious Howard/Gilgam..."Bob Silverberg's atrocious Howard/Gilgamesh slash fan-fiction,...": Man, I thought that I was the only one who still remembers GILGAMESH IN THE OUTBACK, despite the fact that it won the Hugo for best novella in 1987! You know, as much as I love Silverberg as a writer, I can't quite forgive him for marring such a fantastic concept (Robert E. Howard and H.P. Lovecraft meet Gilgamesh in Hell) with his silly theory that Howard was a repressed homosexual, and that his Conan tales merely represented his "sublimated" desires (someone clearly needs to inform Silverberg that no one, barring a few literary critics, still follows Freud's pseudo-scientific theories).<br /><br />Alan Moore and rape: Yeah, for some reason, Moore gets an unbelievable amount of slack when he uses the same type of dodgey material that he condemns others for using. Case in point, Jim Shooter is vilified for depicting an attempt by two homosexuals to rape Bruce Banner in RAMPAGING HULK. When Moore depicts the homosexual gang-rape of Johhny Bates in MARVELMAN, he is praised for writing such a "harrowing" scene. Of course, Moore, clever clogs that he is, has his rapists spout anti-homosexual rhetoric as they rape Bates.Talk about having your cake and eating it too!syonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04764206921202174601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-47088101178388193742010-08-19T22:28:08.993+01:002010-08-19T22:28:08.993+01:00Fair point, Francisco: I've replaced it with t...Fair point, Francisco: I've replaced it with the more neutral and appropriate "Reputation of REH" tag. I normally reserve "Confounded Imbeciles" only for... confounded imbeciles, and you're right, it isn't really fair to count Moore among the likes of others I've criticized.Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-74844595139621396162010-08-19T21:53:17.562+01:002010-08-19T21:53:17.562+01:00Bias means you favor one side preferentially to th...Bias means you favor one side preferentially to the detriment of the other side.Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-40496541638426393372010-08-19T21:51:12.894+01:002010-08-19T21:51:12.894+01:00Well, I really did like Watchmen, From Hell was ok...Well, I really did like Watchmen, From Hell was ok, but the LXG stuff just left me cold.. I don't like seeing other peoples characters used that way.. and it's one of the few times I'll say I like the movie better than the book.. And V For Vendetta did nothing for me since I'd seen the film first.. <br /><br />I don't want anyone to think I'm trashing him.. He is a highly creative person, and shows tremendous depth in his reading habits. But I do feel he takes himself way to seriously.. but then a lot of those old 2000AD guys do..Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-77888208878963836002010-08-19T18:53:22.300+01:002010-08-19T18:53:22.300+01:00for me Swamp thing, the stories of Moore, though I...for me Swamp thing, the stories of Moore, though I haven't read all,are one of the best comics done, I read Watchmen lot of time ago, and I don't like The league of extraordinary gentlemen,I read the first volume, as a friend said in a forum maybe people and critics aclaim that comic becase they usually don't read pulp or pastiches...<br />more things the label confuenden imbeciles is very dangerous and could be not understand, it look like you're calling Alan Moore or Ryan Harvey from Black gate, excellent his review of Conan of the isles, imbeciles, other people maybe deserve the word... I assume imbecil is the same than in spanish, isn't it?<br />the last sentence of Fredrick in his first entry, when he speak about feminism, looks great but I don't understand exactly the term bias... could some of you explain it...?<br />Francisco...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-26090639667309500632010-08-19T18:33:28.759+01:002010-08-19T18:33:28.759+01:00Fredrik, I've been working on a follow-up to t...Fredrik, I've been working on a follow-up to the post: you've brought up a number of points I considered since my original reply, especially the idea of Comedian representing that exact sort of boorish "hero" in S&S and the more gritty comics.<br /><br />Indeed, it's interesting how similar the two cases are: people accuse Watchmen of being "warped" because of the Comedian's attempted rape and SSI's twisted love, but they fail to realise that the Comedian <b>is a bad man</b> and SSI is psychologically broken. I think Moore's made that exact mistake with SSoC: he's asserting that the bad guys who rape women in SSoC are meant to be sympathetic, which is patently absurd. So it's an interesting parallel.Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-51906353979426563282010-08-19T17:41:08.190+01:002010-08-19T17:41:08.190+01:00When i think about it, the comedian is probably an...When i think about it, the comedian is probably an projection of that sword and sorcery hero Moore paint in his article on sexism. Make sence if he is frustrated of how those "heroes" of yeaster-generation got their way and even keep corupting the present (as moore se it), so he makes a true "damndest bastard there ever was" and no charming exuses this time, to try make us understand those heroes are not very nice guys.Fredriknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-40106547687717568542010-08-19T17:25:07.154+01:002010-08-19T17:25:07.154+01:00About the watchmen "hypocrisy". Moore us...About the watchmen "hypocrisy". Moore use his art to critizise the many things he find wrong in the world, and just because he put that stuff in the watchmen dont say he exploit a rape fantasy and see women as victims, quite the contrary. It would be pretty poor critisism of society to exclude everything bad and just pretend its not there. More obviously feel strongly against sexism in pop culture, and natrually he choose to get it right in his own creations. Or did any of you think that the comedian was a cool rolemodel? What Moore see in Conan is the boyish fantasy hero doing basicly what the comedian is doing but being treated as just that cool rolemodel (no, that is not the way I see Conan, but from Taranaich vigilance we know Moore do/did). The comedian/sally relation is obviously there to point out 1. the shift in generations (between mother and daughter etc) and 2. to point out what a bastard the comedian was. <br />And the lost girls is about another part of feminism: breaking the all to common view of girl/women protagonists as virtous asexual little prinsess dolls (ironically for this discussion, Howard also broke those silly cliches decades before Moore, as has ben pointed out). Lost girls probably has the same problem Howard have: the writer has one intention, but the casual reader has a much more simpleminded point of view. But it is an interresting development on Moores behalf to try to make serious erotic comics, with a feminist touch too. <br />You dont stop sexism by saying "men and women are equal" you stop it by saying "men and women are not equal, there is a male bias, and we need to work on changing that".<br />Good post TaranaichFredriknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-29674883747921978222010-08-19T16:33:03.882+01:002010-08-19T16:33:03.882+01:00Very good point, monsterhoodoo (and David), in fac...Very good point, monsterhoodoo (and David), in fact I think it's probably the most damning counterpoint to Moore's whole "Swords-and-Sorcery was showing women falling in love their their rapists" spiel - especially considering Watchmen was written *after* this article!<br /><br />There's also some of the rather crazy stuff in <i>Promethea</i>, as well as some very unfortunate implications in <i>Tom Strong</i>, but it's clear that Alan's a bit of a sable pot calling an obsidian kettle stygian. For shame, Alan!<br /><br />Couldn't agree more, Brian. We didn't even have a heroine in a Conan adventure until the <b>fourth story</b>. As you say, "Phoenix" was all about Conan dealing with the realities of kingship and more: "The Scarlet Citadel" had him dealing with betrayal, the struggle to regain his kingdom, facing his darkest fears in the Halls of Hell, and making a deal with a human devil in order to save his kingdom; "The Tower of the Elephant" has Conan neither get the treasure nor kill the monster, and is faced not with an epic battle, but the shame of an entire race as he witnesses a cosmic tragedy. Don't see much Puerile Adolescent Wish Fulfillment there.<br /><br />Lagomorph and Kike, well, to each his own. I can certainly see why you'd dislike Moore's books, but I can't help but love some of his work. <i>Promethea</i> is my own favourite, while my mother adores "Love and Death." He is massively self-satisfied and needs to be knocked down a peg or two, but ultimately, I think he deserves some credit. As someone once said, "I suppose we must respect him."Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-67371092867208473302010-08-19T14:54:03.179+01:002010-08-19T14:54:03.179+01:00Well: i really hate Alan Moore comic books. I find...Well: i really hate Alan Moore comic books. I find them long, empty and pedantic. Even Watchmen. ESPECIALLY Watchmen.Kikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15070254713050025760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-38319836942940237702010-08-19T04:37:42.533+01:002010-08-19T04:37:42.533+01:00I was going to bring up the hypocrisy of watchmen ...I was going to bring up the hypocrisy of watchmen but monsterhoodoo beat me to the punch.<br /><br />And I raise a toast to the shade of the Cimmerian as well.nephite blood spartan hearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17092519999184585295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-90991250513246503272010-08-19T03:28:27.118+01:002010-08-19T03:28:27.118+01:00Moore turned beloved characters of literature in t...Moore turned beloved characters of literature in to maladjusted drug fiends and sexual predators in his LXG books.. I won't even go into what he did with those faery tale books.. <br /><br />He's self important and I'm glad I traded all my Alan Moore Trades a while back and got something from some one who doesn't think quite as highly of himself as Moore does..Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-66914163132347292392010-08-19T03:09:07.242+01:002010-08-19T03:09:07.242+01:00The myth that Howard's stories were naught but...The myth that Howard's stories were naught but pure boys' wish fulfillment and escape really needs to die now. I mean, the very first published Conan story, "The Phoenix on the Sword," has Conan coping with the difficult responsibilities of kingship, "wearying [him] as all the fighting [he] had done never did." <br /><br /><i>When I was a fighting-man, the kettle-drums they beat,<br />The people scattered gold-dust before my horse's feet;<br />But now I am a great king, the people hound my track<br />With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back</i><br /><br />I miss <i>The Cimmerian</i> too.Brian Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05563309422791320114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-5308036285053556112010-08-19T03:02:51.437+01:002010-08-19T03:02:51.437+01:00So... let me get this straight. In Watchmen, The C...So... let me get this straight. In Watchmen, The Comedian almost rapes Sally Jupiter, until Hooded Justice intervenes. But then, a few years later, Sally has a relationship with her "almost" rapist. I think you hit the nail on the head. Moore is exempt here as well I suppose...monsterhoodoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03634583620479106162noreply@blogger.com