tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post2317640648877572916..comments2024-02-20T10:12:20.623+00:00Comments on The Blog That Time Forgot: Robert E. Howard: A New ManifestoTaranaichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-60721900453505082412010-10-22T09:47:39.445+01:002010-10-22T09:47:39.445+01:00Bravo, Mark. I applaud what you said AND the way y...Bravo, Mark. I applaud what you said AND the way you said it.Blackstormenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-63631343464238109752010-10-22T05:54:13.678+01:002010-10-22T05:54:13.678+01:00Bobby, I've been, if nothing else, exceedingly...Bobby, I've been, if nothing else, exceedingly kind to the fans of de Camp. One of his biggest public defenders is a friend of mine in REHupa. But my whole book is a point by point refutation of de Camp's assessment of Howard's life and work. I chose not to bash anyone over the head with it, but I started from the premise of taking apart all of the things de Camp wrote in his various introductions to Conan and answering them, either with the correct information, or explaining cultural conceits that de Camp was clearly not aware of, or at least offering up different interpretations to de Camp's statements. <br /><br />Bottom line is that I don't care what people say about me or other REH fans. And I really really don't care when someone like Joshi says that Howard's sword and sorcery work is sub-par hack pulp fare. At least I know from where Joshi is throwing those rocks. But if you go back and read Maggie van Ostrand's article from Fandomania, it reads like it was written in 1985. It's junk journalism. And she professed to actually LIKE Howard. That's my only concern.Mark Finnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02085303208733639998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-2660677404877255712010-10-21T21:03:48.430+01:002010-10-21T21:03:48.430+01:00Mark, I agree with you that REH has not been fairl...Mark, I agree with you that REH has not been fairly portrayed by the mainstream, and that it took people like Glen lord, Don Herron and yourself, to show the faithful the truth. And I agree with with the sentiment that DVD needs to be deconstructed, page by page, line by line or even word by word in necessary. REH deserves no less. <br /><br />But please tell me that you are not using the school yard excuse that he started it.<br /><br />If you want to defend REH, that's great. I don't think he could be in better hands, except when time after time, I see that that defense consists of the same back handedness, misrepresenting, character assassination and outright lies about those you're defending him from.<br /><br />You wrote: "We expect you to accord Robert E. Howard the same respect as any other 20th century American author with continued and perennial popularity." While I agree with that statement, I have yet to see it applied to those that disagree with the 'Shield Wall.'bobby_5150https://www.blogger.com/profile/12604282146640951861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-2242685225670000262010-10-21T06:56:37.401+01:002010-10-21T06:56:37.401+01:00All of that aside, then, surely you don't mind...All of that aside, then, surely you don't mind if this is posted as an attempt to curb some of the childishness the last few years? I mean, it's not like we started any of these fights.Mark Finnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02085303208733639998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-3371740817373243482010-10-20T18:39:00.166+01:002010-10-20T18:39:00.166+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.bobby_5150https://www.blogger.com/profile/12604282146640951861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-17041704648842838822010-10-20T18:37:26.681+01:002010-10-20T18:37:26.681+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.bobby_5150https://www.blogger.com/profile/12604282146640951861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-31986468758691236582010-10-20T18:36:05.331+01:002010-10-20T18:36:05.331+01:00Let me start out by saying that I'm a BIG Robe...Let me start out by saying that I'm a BIG Robert E. Howard fan. I've been reading his stuff for almost 40 years. Over the last 20 years, I've So far spent over $10,000 collecting his works. <br /><br />That said, I have got to say that all of this childish fanboy behavior that has been running all over the web for the last several years, is getting kind of old. Defending your hero is one thing, but some of the nasty shit that I've seen lately is largely uncalled for and is getting very old, very fast.<br /><br />I know that you don't like what de Canp wrote in his bio of REH. Did he get a lot of it wrong, yes. Did he do it on purpose, no. Hell, at this time, Conan was his cash cow. Why would he want to damage that. Remember also that the field REH literary criticism was in it's infancy. He had far fewer sources to go on then we do today. That's why I agree with most of what was said in the Maggie Van Ostrand blow-up.<br /><br />About Dark Valley Destiny, all I can say about is, so what. True, it is a very imperfect bio of REH, but if someone is a big enough fan to want to read a bio, then reading what de Camp wrote will not drive the fan away from REH. In fact it will probably make then hunt for more works about REH. It did to me. I've read Glen Lord, Mark Finn, Robert Weinberg, Don Herron and Darrell Schweitzer among others. What I find very funny is reading all of the new generation of REH scholars defending REH from all of this ill-informed and poorly researched information in the same manner as those they are defending REH from. Ill-informed and poorly researched, back handed and just plain vindictive. Just go over to the REH-e-APA, REHupa, REH: Two Gun Raconteur or the much lamented Cimmerian, and read what has been written about de Camp, and then go read what the people who really know him have to say about him. <br /><br />I'm also tired of all of the bitching and moaning about the Lancer editions. Those were the first Conan's I ever read. In fact the first 5 Conan stories I ever read were not by REH. All of the crap I read on the internet about how de Camp's and Carter's stories are so inferior to REH's stories that they will drive new readers away in just not true. I will be the first to agree that their writing is not up to REH's standard, but if you are a 9 to 16 year old boy (who they were aimed at) they will still knock your socks off. I fact they were so bad that I've gone on to own over 30 REH Weird Tales, all 7 Gnome Press books, the 3 Arkham House books + 5 of the 7 other AH books with REH stories in them. All of the Wandering Star books and the Girasol books. And a Lot more. They were so bad that I've purchased every thing that I could get my hands on, including 3 of each of the Lancers.<br /><br />I also think that August Derleth is getting a bum rap too.bobby_5150https://www.blogger.com/profile/12604282146640951861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-77151512508830079712010-10-19T13:56:00.129+01:002010-10-19T13:56:00.129+01:00I think this is teriffic! A great manifesto. I onl...I think this is teriffic! A great manifesto. I only hope it encourages a little bit of pausing to reflect and maybe even research before bloggers shoot off their type. If only that could become true for everything.<br /><br />I know I read Dark Valley Destiny years ago but I'm damned if I can remember one thing about it, which I guess is just as well.M. D. Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13820831338678743992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-20448027586249889422010-10-19T13:53:38.606+01:002010-10-19T13:53:38.606+01:00Well said. Attacks on REH and Conan reek of a geek...<i>Well said. Attacks on REH and Conan reek of a geekish envy of certain kinds of masculinity: In what uiverse are dreams of swiving and brawling markers for closet homosexuality? </i><br /><br />I don't think all attacks on REH are the result of envy, zornhau (Hi there, btw) - plenty enough seem to be from simple lack of appreciation or just plain misunderstanding of the source material. It's perfectly fine not to like REH or appreciate his work, but when you're going to sling accusations you'd better bring some cover.<br /><br />Incidentally, I find the "homoeroticism" "argument" immensely entertaining, as if the male body in itself is somehow homoerotic. Because REH can talk about buxom women in various states of undress until the cows come home, but apparently talking about his heroes' biceps is supposedly suspicious.Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-25377686420677797882010-10-19T12:23:30.622+01:002010-10-19T12:23:30.622+01:00Why does it have to be envy? Can't it simply b...Why does it have to be envy? Can't it simply be disdain? <br /><br />Its like attaching "Phobia" to a word.. why does it have to be that one is afraid of something in order to dislike it?Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-32174275046442230632010-10-19T11:07:38.912+01:002010-10-19T11:07:38.912+01:00Well said. Attacks on REH and Conan reek of a geek...Well said. Attacks on REH and Conan reek of a geekish envy of certain kinds of masculinity: In what uiverse are dreams of swiving and brawling markers for closet homosexuality?M Harold Pagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08949772130509527838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-43687608332834584772010-10-19T06:47:24.275+01:002010-10-19T06:47:24.275+01:00Good post! I've got a copy of "Dark Valle...<i>Good post! I've got a copy of "Dark Valley Destiny" (signed by DeCamp and his wife) that I bought quite a few years ago. I didn't know about the mis-characterizations in the book when I originally bought it, but I have yet to read it.</i><br /><br />Atom, I'd almost suggest that you <b>do</b> read it, if only to see why DVD is held in such ill regard. Imagine a whole book of backhanded compliments.<br /><br /><i>Glad to see this. These are things that, unfortunately, still need to be said about many of my favorite authors (REH, HPL, and Eddison, to name a few in the fantasy genre). </i><br /><br />It's true, Scott. JRRT's another one, but he has a lot of defenders too.<br /><br /><i>Hear, hear, Mark Finn.<br /><br />I do hope this spreads around the net in nice fashion. </i><br /><br />As do I, Taran.<br /><br /><i>Much as I like Mark Finn's book. I think if he intends this to be an actual "Manifesto" for the REH revitalization movement.. he will need to make it a lot less confrontational.. or the very people he is trying to reach with it will simply not bother.<br /><br />I agree with essentially all of it, but even I found my "Hey, screw you buddy" reflex charging up a few times.. </i><br /><br />I can see that point of view, Lagomorph, but frankly, I think confrontation will work too. "Any publicity is good publicity" sort of thing: if people say "dude, this REH fan's really ticked off" then it sticks in the mind.Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-3693591334186518192010-10-19T06:34:27.987+01:002010-10-19T06:34:27.987+01:00It's understandable as some of the goons on th...It's understandable as some of the goons on the internet who stridently trash REH, both personally and professionally are extremely irksome.. and no doubt tiresome to deal with. <br /><br />I also agree that its vastly dependent on where one is sitting as to how aggressive it comes across.<br /><br />I'm not really that much of an REH fan, in so much as I am a fan of several of the genres he wrote in.. or founded.. so maybe I don't take some of the stuff as much to heart as others who are more fans of him, for him and his entire body of work. <br /><br />I appreciate your responding however, and really do wish you the best of luck in trying to sort out some of the various PR issues that still plague REH.Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-38459282269975072142010-10-19T06:13:30.467+01:002010-10-19T06:13:30.467+01:00Rex,
I vascillated on whether or not to make it m...Rex,<br /><br />I vascillated on whether or not to make it more or less confrontational. In the end, I opted for a slightly more strident tone, and this was intentional. While it's true that you catch more flies with honey, sometimes nice guys do finish last. Actually, some folks thought that as a manifesto it wasn't aggressive enough. Funny how that works.Mark Finnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02085303208733639998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-38269843723371451502010-10-19T02:42:03.318+01:002010-10-19T02:42:03.318+01:00Much as I like Mark Finn's book. I think if he...Much as I like Mark Finn's book. I think if he intends this to be an actual "Manifesto" for the REH revitalization movement.. he will need to make it a lot less confrontational.. or the very people he is trying to reach with it will simply not bother. <br /><br />I agree with essentially all of it, but even I found my "Hey, screw you buddy" reflex charging up a few times..Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-32380753607809207022010-10-19T00:47:41.990+01:002010-10-19T00:47:41.990+01:00Hear, hear, Mark Finn.
I do hope this spreads aro...Hear, hear, Mark Finn.<br /><br />I do hope this spreads around the net in nice fashion.Michalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02198881279554204600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-48611846179982783602010-10-18T17:54:31.124+01:002010-10-18T17:54:31.124+01:00Glad to see this. These are things that, unfortun...Glad to see this. These are things that, unfortunately, still need to be said about many of my favorite authors (REH, HPL, and Eddison, to name a few in the fantasy genre).Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00155926145150934199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-64464234765320904242010-10-18T17:43:23.986+01:002010-10-18T17:43:23.986+01:00Good post! I've got a copy of "Dark Vall...Good post! I've got a copy of "Dark Valley Destiny" (signed by DeCamp and his wife) that I bought quite a few years ago. I didn't know about the mis-characterizations in the book when I originally bought it, but I have yet to read it. The taint associated with it is too great to get me to read it. I'll keep it around as an oddity that collects dust.Chad Thorsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15084711824869449643noreply@blogger.com