tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post1914869691681966812..comments2024-02-20T10:12:20.623+00:00Comments on The Blog That Time Forgot: Conan = Mary Sue?Taranaichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-11444381103337913682011-03-10T00:33:33.807+00:002011-03-10T00:33:33.807+00:00The first two quotes at the very beginning of this...<i>The first two quotes at the very beginning of this awesome post seem to conflate Robert E. Howard's work with the Arnie movie to a disturbing degree.</i><br /><br />Yes, yes indeed. And not even particularly accurately at that.<br /><br /><i>Yeah, I gotta blame the film for a lot of this. I think you did a good job presenting the counter evidence. </i><br /><br />I think it's mainly the "doomed hometown/quest for revenge/dead parents" that can be put upon the film, certainly, but even apart from that, Milius' Conan is far from a Mary Sue himself.<br /><br /><i>The Mary Sue thing annoys me - IMHO a powerful character is not a mary sue if:<br /><br />1. They face equally powerful opposition.<br />2. People react to them realistically.<br />3. Their victories are earned. </i><br /><br />Definitely a good way of looking at it: Conan applies to all three.<br /><br /><i>i dont know if i would blame the milius film so much either...arnie has his fair share of failures and beatings in that flick too.he loses his family,gets beat up in the pit(at first)gets hurt falling into the cave,barely escapes the snake tower,poorly disguises himself as an acolyte of set, gets his ass kicked by dooms henchmen is crucified and needs the help of a wizard,loses valeria, and when he finally does win at the very he sure doesnt look or feel like a winner.maybe destroyer but even then there an ensemble to help out.no i wouldnt so much blame the movies i thinkits just another false projection thats been built up over the years.</i><br /><br />Very true: aside from the aforementioned origin elements, there isn't really that much about Milius-Conan that's Mary Sueish. Surely if that were the case, he wouldn't end up brutalized in gladiatorial combat, or beaten up by a mere two henchmen?<br /><br /><i>Conan cannot be a Mary Sue because he's just the hero of the story. A Mary Sue would occur if someone wrote a Conan pastiche in which a perky young female character showed up and over the course of the story demonstrated vastly superior combat and tactical prowess compared to Conan, made Conan fall head over heels in love with her (likely also involving a lot of petty jealousy from Valeria, Zenobia, and whatever other lovers Conan has had the author cares to toss in), and probably also single-handedly beaten Thoth-Amon and the Black Circle in a war of magic because she's also the greatest, wisest, most learned wizard of the age (despite being only a naive teenager). She fulfills a prophecy of bringing peace to the Hyborian Age while making Conan perfectly content in a subordinate love interest role. THAT'S a Mary Sue. </i><br /><br />Excellent point. As an aside, the female character you describe sounds a LOT like a few of the comics characters I've read! Particularly from the Fleisher run.<br /><br /><i> As someone who agrees that Mary Sue is an overly and broadly used term, thanks for this post.</i><br /><br />Cheers!<br /><br /><i>ehem Al I think you're a very kindly guy, erudite and very funny and I enjoy a lot your blog but this article must be the silliest?</i><br /><br />It might well be, yes! Interesting that the Mary Sue isn't really known in Spain: wonder if it's an English language phenomenon. Sorry you didn't enjoy it, though.Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-89345346422040782282011-03-09T18:04:01.506+00:002011-03-09T18:04:01.506+00:00ehem Al I think you're a very kindly guy, erud...ehem Al I think you're a very kindly guy, erudite and very funny and I enjoy a lot your blog but this article must be the silliest? you have wirtten for the blog, the less interesting, I can't pass from question 18, maybe because here in Spain we don't know about that Mary Sue conceptfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16141925304481130360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-48919204917611539962011-03-08T23:49:50.221+00:002011-03-08T23:49:50.221+00:00As someone who agrees that Mary Sue is an overly a...As someone who agrees that Mary Sue is an overly and broadly used term, thanks for this post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-82118320158346435152011-03-08T15:28:34.528+00:002011-03-08T15:28:34.528+00:00The problem with all this Mary Sue silliness is th...The problem with all this Mary Sue silliness is that it was a term created to apply to fan fiction, and it really only works in that context, but people have overused it so that it now refers to any hero that is larger than life and more capable than ordinary protagonists.<br /><br />Conan cannot be a Mary Sue because he's just the hero of the story. A Mary Sue would occur if someone wrote a Conan pastiche in which a perky young female character showed up and over the course of the story demonstrated vastly superior combat and tactical prowess compared to Conan, made Conan fall head over heels in love with her (likely also involving a lot of petty jealousy from Valeria, Zenobia, and whatever other lovers Conan has had the author cares to toss in), and probably also single-handedly beaten Thoth-Amon and the Black Circle in a war of magic because she's also the greatest, wisest, most learned wizard of the age (despite being only a naive teenager). She fulfills a prophecy of bringing peace to the Hyborian Age while making Conan perfectly content in a subordinate love interest role. THAT'S a Mary Sue.Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14624614486574035692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-46058699732482454292011-03-08T11:57:36.279+00:002011-03-08T11:57:36.279+00:00i dont know if i would blame the milius film so mu...i dont know if i would blame the milius film so much either...arnie has his fair share of failures and beatings in that flick too.he loses his family,gets beat up in the pit(at first)gets hurt falling into the cave,barely escapes the snake tower,poorly disguises himself as an acolyte of set, gets his ass kicked by dooms henchmen is crucified and needs the help of a wizard,loses valeria, and when he finally does win at the very he sure doesnt look or feel like a winner.maybe destroyer but even then there an ensemble to help out.no i wouldnt so much blame the movies i thinkits just another false projection thats been built up over the years.-i do think your assessment Al, is spot on and brings out all the things i love about the character though.-marioAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-59823811587521124882011-03-08T09:58:30.671+00:002011-03-08T09:58:30.671+00:00The Mary Sue thing annoys me - IMHO a powerful cha...The Mary Sue thing annoys me - IMHO a powerful character is not a mary sue if:<br /><br />1. They face equally powerful opposition.<br />2. People react to them realistically.<br />3. Their victories are earned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-9509492062223877582011-03-08T02:18:43.284+00:002011-03-08T02:18:43.284+00:00Yeah, I gotta blame the film for a lot of this. I...Yeah, I gotta blame the film for a lot of this. I think you did a good job presenting the counter evidence.Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745062840676790649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7177193073415704349.post-7750248172886689332011-03-08T01:27:36.857+00:002011-03-08T01:27:36.857+00:00The first two quotes at the very beginning of this...The first two quotes at the very beginning of this awesome post seem to conflate Robert E. Howard's work with the Arnie movie to a disturbing degree. Anyone with a passing familiarity with the fiction knows that REH did not come up with the "What are the best things in life?" riff. I know this popular conflation is something you've expanded on before in regards to the new film. Just grates on my fan-nerves, I guess.Greg Gorgonmilkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15397374629757817360noreply@blogger.com